Hmmm...it would seem that "the little guy from Shawinigan" wasn't quite correct when he told Canadians that "...dere is no terrorisme in Canada".

It'll be interesting to see how The Usual Suspects in the MSM try to spin an implied cause-effect connection to Canadian participation in the Global War on Terror and the Canadian force in Afghanistan.

The Usual Suspects can take either of two approaches.

They can follow the example of the BBC, which has totally ignored the British Home Secretary's announcement of anti-terrorist forces breaking up twenty serious Islamist terrorist plots in the UK.

Or they can do a totally specious "connect the dots" to attempt to spin the cause-effect of Canada standing with the West in the War on Terror and sending a large combat unit to Afghanistan to aid those people and their fledgling democratic government in securing their country.

Posted by: Dave at June 3, 2006 08:09 AM

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RCMP Assistant Commissioner Mike McDonnel confirmed that Toronto's transit system was not a target:

I provided a cbc link, but your are such a bizarely partisan guy that apparently all cbc dot ca links are censored here as "questionable content". Nice.

Posted by: Wilson at June 3, 2006 09:36 AM

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Hey. Wilson. If you think Steve is "such a bizarely (sic) partisan guy", why do you come here?

Could it be (gasp!!!) that you're partisan too? Bizarrely so?

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 09:44 AM

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Way to keep your eyes on the prize Patrick. Knocking spelling is always a sure winner. Funny that you didn't correct Steve's "backetball". One might also question your use of punctuation (!!!), but that doesn't really address the issue, now does it.

Why are cbc links censored on this blog?

A funny joke? A political statement? Bad judgement?

To get back to the real issue -- let's hope that this doesn't result in any wavering on our committement to Afghanistan. Let's also hope it doesn't result in any over-the-top backlashes and reactionary measures.

Posted by: Bob at June 3, 2006 10:26 AM

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Well, aren't we all.

But to be fair to Steve, the word "c*nservative, minus the asterisk, is banned, too. At least it was when I checked in last week.

As for the subject of this thread, never mind Dave's clumsy pre-emtive attempts, our current Leader and his increasing meddling in US wars of aggression are bound to create reactions. I wish it weren't so, but it is.

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at June 3, 2006 10:27 AM

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3 tonnes of ammonia nitrate seized reported by G&M.
This is a massive amount of explosive precursor.

Posted by: Rich at June 3, 2006 10:33 AM

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I remember being accused by someone as a racist because I had the temerity to suggest police keep watch over some mosques--well well well...in a day where "tolerance" means just about anything, thank goodness for police services who do not "tolerate" cultural and religious expression by terrorists. The left is a disgrace--they refuse to call terrorism for what it is: pure evil. Let's hope the courts, lined with sympathetic liberal justices, won't capitulate to the post-modern meme and give these criminals stiff prison sentences.

Posted by: Richard at June 3, 2006 10:46 AM

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The left is a disgrace--they refuse to call terrorism for what it is: pure evil.

This is such a tired trope. "Pure evil" has no cause, no solutions. Terrorism has both. We can argue about what those causes and solutions are (and we should argue about that); but let's not crank up the rhetoric so high that we turn a complicated problem into a simplistic mythical entity.

Posted by: Bob at June 3, 2006 10:54 AM

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3 tonnes ammonium nitrate? Hmm...Parliment hill has how good security? Or Perhaps the American or British Embassies?

Posted by: Jewels (AKA Julian) at June 3, 2006 11:35 AM

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"Funny that you didn't correct Steve's "backetball"."

I don't correct people's spelling. "sic" is the time-honoured way to indicate that the spelling is not from the person writing, but rather from the original author. So, in case I haven't connected the dots enough for you to follow along, since I didn't quote Steve, I had no reason to bring notice to his misspelling.

Why did you?

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 11:36 AM

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"Pure evil" has no cause, no solutions. Terrorism has both."

Wow. To this point, I thought the only way to deal with terrorists was to prevent those bent on terrorism before it happens, or to hunt them down after the fact. But Bob has a solution!!! No more terrorism!!! Yay!!!

(Bob, you're an idiot.)

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 11:39 AM

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It probably never made the news, but two of the bombs threats this year in Ottawa were against the US Embassy in January, and the British High Commission in May, both not far from each other.

Witnesses (and surveillance cameras) at the US Embassy threat saw a 'Middle Eastern' male toss a briefcase into a garbage can on the sidewalk and just kept walking, they never did find him.

Posted by: Courtney at June 3, 2006 11:53 AM

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Hey great, they finally arrested the terrorists who burned down a million dollar bridge, sabotaged a hydro substation, dug a trench across the main road and terrorised those poor people in Caledonia for months.

Whaddaya mean it's not them? They got off scott free? What's that about? Oh right, McGuinty.

Posted by: neo at June 3, 2006 12:09 PM

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The leftocraps can forget about blaming Harper/A'stan for this one. This bust has been in the works since 2004. Even the so-called mayor of Toronto has known about this investigation for 5 months. It appears they were close to making a move, so the boys had to shut them down. That leaves only about 80000 disaffected middle easterners and disenchanted liberals in Miss'ga to round up.

Posted by: Skip at June 3, 2006 12:15 PM

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"This is such a tired trope. "Pure evil" has no cause, no solutions. Terrorism has both." - Bob

Terrorism's cause? "You disagree with me."
Terrorism's solution? Our total annihilation.

Make no mistake, Bob, these people won't stop if we leave the MidEast and capitulate to them and just try to co-exist. Peaceful co-existence is NOT what they want. Just listen to them. This is why Israel has such a hardline attitude. Their neighbors have consistently tried to destroy them. Even Egypt is still hostile at some levels, and they have had a peace treaty with them since the 70's! Terrorism has been imported to almost every continent in the world. We must learn that they only understand one thing, power and force. They won't consider stopping unless they are afraid of forceful retaliation and even then they won't stop. Many IRA terrorists still practice their craft, even though they have obtained "peace".

So yes, terrorism is pure evil. You can't reason with them, you can't negotiate in good faith, and you can't just go along with them. To them, you are evil, and must be wiped off the face of the earth.

I know, this isn't pretty to think about, but wake up, this is reality. This is a war we must win. Just as Hitler scared the hell out of the world in the 40's, we should be equally scared of Jihadists today.

Posted by: cincimaddog at June 3, 2006 12:27 PM

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Wow. To this point, I thought the only way to deal with terrorists was to prevent those bent on terrorism before it happens, or to hunt them down after the fact. But Bob has a solution!!! No more terrorism!!! Yay!!!

(Bob, you're an idiot.)

Huh? Did I propose a solution? Did you? I simply mentioned that discussing potential causes and solutions would be worthwhile . . . as opposed to simply asserting that terrorism is "pure evil", which provides no room for discussion of either. If something is "pure evil" what can we do?

Almost everyone agrees that the best solution is to "prevent those bent on terrorism before it happens" -- the trick is how to accomplish this. I don't have answers, do you? If so, let's talk about it.

Why the hostility? I'm in favour of Afghanistan. I'm in favour of combatting terrorism.

Posted by: Bob at June 3, 2006 12:30 PM

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Bob, you declare with authority that those who thinks terrorists are "pure evil" are wrong. You declare with equal vigour that terrorism has both a cause AND a solution. But you don't have that solution? Or at least, a proposal for one?

So when you say you're in favour of combatting terrorism, you're saying that your combatting is with what, exactly? Food vouchers? Capitulation? Or perhaps a royal commission on the causes and solutions of terrorism?

I stand by my original assessment, and thank you for confirming it.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 12:40 PM

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Just to be clear -- are you asserting that "pure evil" is a sufficient explanation for terrorism? If so, is there anything we can do about it?

You're claiming that because I don't have a solution to terrorism I have nothing to contribute? Has anyone on Earth proposed a solution that has worked?

Posted by: Bob at June 3, 2006 12:46 PM

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-10 of the 12 adults are under the age of 25
-Another 6 under the age of 18

This is shocking stuff. Of course, the muslim community will draw a veil of secrecy over themselves and have nothing to say...other than we deserve it. (as per usual)

Posted by: downtownslater at June 3, 2006 12:59 PM

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My comment was going to question not how long it would take people to "connect the dots" regarding Canada's role in the war on terror or Afghanistan, but rather how long it would take them to blame our still new government for the discontent and anger with Canada of the various Islamic groups. The question is now irrelevant as Dr. Dawg has eloquently already answered it for me. It's now only a matter of time before the same accusations are levelled on the floor of the House of Commons.

Wake up please people. We've been in Afghanistan for 4 years. It was King Chretian the Omnipotent and his court who deployed our troops there. To attempt to place the blame for potential attacks on the country on Steven Harper and his government is disingenuous at best.

gerry

Posted by: vieux loup at June 3, 2006 01:01 PM

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"You're claiming that because I don't have a solution to terrorism I have nothing to contribute? Has anyone on Earth proposed a solution that has worked?"

Now you're arguing my point. Thank you.

Since you're obviously too dense to follow which point is yours, and which is mine, let me connect the dots for you. You took umbrage at someone who said this was "pure evil" because, you said, terrorism has both a cause and a solution. You said that, while simultaneously knowing that no one on Earth has proposed a solution that works. Thereby calling into your question your own point.

Yup. You're an idiot all right.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 01:12 PM

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"Wake up please people. We've been in Afghanistan for 4 years. It was King Chretian the Omnipotent and his court who deployed our troops there. To attempt to place the blame for potential attacks on the country on Steven Harper and his government is disingenuous at best."

People have short memories, including the MSM, so there will be a segment of the population that will blame Harper. Some people also think that plans for terrorist attacks are hatched over dinner and a cigar, not years as is the case.

The thing to watch will be how various groups (CAIR-Canada, ACLU, etc) will react, and if they will mount 'victim' campaign.

Posted by: Courtney at June 3, 2006 01:13 PM

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Might be (past) time to look at antiquated citizenship laws. Anyone of any nationality can enter Canada legally (visitor, student visa–doesn’t matter), give birth and the kid is full fledged 100% Canadian –neither parent is/was. Leaves Canada the next day (1 day, 1 week old –did I mention neither parent is Canadian) to be brought up with any terrorist organization or with any radical views imparted on him/her and in a sleeper kind of way is the next one that runs into a tower 20 years later. 100% Canadian –we gave him the passport to do it. And the government is proud of this? We're proud of this? Must be or the laws would have changed right after 2001 and revoke citizenship of those that were born in Canada without Canadian parents and never lived in Canada. People come to Canada not just to build a life but to grab that passport –and we give it away like candy. Better check the schools, universities about who's planning or already had a kid whose enjoying that fully legal passport in a foreign land with his parents, who at 15 years old is taught neither English or French and can only manage to beat his chest and sputter out "I Kan-da" -oh did I mention that neither parent is/was Canadian and the kid is brought up by radicals in a state known to sponsor terrorism. Is this kid going to be a terrorist -maybe and maybe not -but for sure he's 100% Kan-da with a 100% Canadian passport.

Posted by: perplexed at June 3, 2006 01:26 PM

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But wait...staying out of Iraq was supposed to save us from terrorism.....hmmm didnt work did it. BTW we didnt have a role to play in Iraq so we shouldnt have gone.

Now the argument is "get out of afghanistan"....right, the one that actually has a justification, overthrow of the government that allowed the attack to take place on an ally, along with being a heinous government in its own right.

Appeasement never works as a strategy, it sometimes buys time as a tactic. The two are not linked. 3 tonnes of anfo is not a rational response. Only a useful idiot can make that argument.

Posted by: Stephen at June 3, 2006 01:27 PM

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Stephen wrote:
"Appeasement never works as a strategy"

Very true, but how many decades does it take for some people to realize this. Canada has, and always will be, a target. Not because of A'stan, Iraq, GWOT, immigration policies, but because of who, or what, we are - The West.

Posted by: Courtney at June 3, 2006 01:40 PM

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I saw the headline in the newspaper box: "RCMP make big Ontario terror bust"

I turned away and thought; I bet they're all Muslim..and I bet they were making bombs.

I bet I'm not the only one who had the same correct guess

Posted by: nocaffeine at June 3, 2006 01:43 PM

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Okay patrick. Terrorism is explained solely by virtue of the fact that it is pure evil. There is nothing we can do about it. Throw up our hands. It is God's will (the Devil's will?).

A bit too simplistic and a bit too defeatest for me, thank you.

Posted by: bob at June 3, 2006 01:49 PM

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I also love that logic: No single solution to terrorism has worked -- therefore terrorism has no cause or solution -- therefore it can be explained as simply pure evil -- therefore ... what exactly?

"Pure evil" as an explanation is nothing but an empty phrase -- it contributes nothing of substance to the problem

Posted by: Wilson at June 3, 2006 01:56 PM

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Bob, do you have to work at being obtuse, or does it come naturally?

Terrorism, as a tactic, is pure evil, and deliberately so. Perhaps the 'cause' that drives some to choose terrorism as a tactic is not pure evil. I don't know, and I don't care.

I also don't care to try to find the 'cause' of the use of the tactic (i.e. "why do they hate us?" crap) while allowing the terrorism free rein.

Tell you what. You keep thinking any way you want and the rest of us will protect your sorry *ss by fighting terrorism as an evil, with whatever decent weapons and tactics we can find. If you ever figure out what causes these rotten bastards to *CHOOSE* to use a purely evil tactic, please feel free to try to figure out a strategy to 'fix' the problem whilst we continue killing, incarcerating, deporting, or whatever the evil bastards who *CHOOSE* to target you and us with their evil tactic.

Personally, I don't even care what the 'cause' is that these evil bastards claim leads them to *CHOOSE* to use and evil tactic. I say kill'em all and let God (or Allah) help them or not with their 'cause' when they present themselves to him.

Posted by: JorgXMckie at June 3, 2006 02:08 PM

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Personally, I don't even care what the 'cause' is that these evil bastards claim leads them to *CHOOSE* to use and evil tactic. I say kill'em all and let God (or Allah) help them or not with their 'cause' when they present themselves to him.

Good thinking JorgXmckie, because ignoring the causes of terrorism and just killing or arresting terrorists has worked beautifully in the past . . .

Posted by: Bob at June 3, 2006 02:26 PM

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2nd paragraph of The Star feature article:

“I think there are a lot of people here today who should not be involved in this,� said Anser Farooq, a lawyer representing several of the accused. “I think they (the police) cast their net far too wide. We’ve been talking several lawsuits as a result of this action�

Steve, let's keep an eye on this guy in the media.

Posted by: peterjackson at June 3, 2006 03:59 PM

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Bob has a solution; he's just not willing to utter it in public. It has something to do with abandoning the only fully-functioning democracy in the Middle East.

Posted by: Captain Ned at June 3, 2006 04:14 PM

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Certainly any connection between the arrested terror "suspects" and the Religion of Peace(tm) is purely coincidental.

No jihad here to see hereabouts, folks. Move along, please.

At any rate, lamebrain Howard Moscoe of the Toronto Transit Commission might wish to wake up & take notice: the terrorists have "finally found Toronto on the map", contrary to his previously idiotic claims to the contrary.

mhb23re
(email is above username at google webmail service)

Posted by: mhb at June 3, 2006 04:45 PM

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"Terrorism's cause? "You disagree with me." "

If that's the cause, why doesn't Saskatchewan have terrorism? It's because it takes manipulators whispering crazy ideas to fools, for terrorism to really take off. If you remove either the fools, or the masterminds, then terrorism never really gets off the ground except in extremely desperate situations where conventional and peaceful methods of dispute resolution are failing.

Posted by: saskboy at June 3, 2006 04:56 PM

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Bob wrote:

"...just killing or arresting terrorists has worked beautifully in the past . . . "

The problem is, we're not killing nearly enough of them.

W should have vaporized the Mideast (Israel excluded) right after 9/11.

Posted by: ian in cowtown at June 3, 2006 05:49 PM

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As for Dave's comment way back, about the MSM spinning a cause-and-effect connection, well, we can always count on the Toronto Star, can't we?

From MSNBC.com:

"The Toronto Star reported Saturday that Canadian youths in their teens and 20s, upset at the treatment of Muslims worldwide, were among those arrested."

Posted by: ian in cowtown at June 3, 2006 05:59 PM

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Just remember who started all this. Not George Bush, not Tony Blair, not Stephen Harper, but Mr. bin Laden. To suggest that Canada's involvement in Afganistan is to blame is utterly stupid and naive. Appeasement does not work with people willing to blow themselves up.

Posted by: ground zero at June 3, 2006 06:10 PM

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Ian: "We should have vaporized..."

Way over the top, and not helpful in ensure Canada stays the course in defending itself, its allies and the cause of freedom.

We have just received a dose of reality that should awaken the typically moderate and apathetic Canadian that thus far has been satisfied with the pablum doled out by the Libs for 40 years.

There is a real threat to our society, and we must meet it. We'll do that with our determination and our cunning and sense of fairness and justice. That includes supporting our armed services, our police and our intelligence community.

No rational person in this country can now simply sweep this under the anti-Bush anti-American carpet. RCMP and CSIS have demonstrated their effectiveness, and are to be commended by us.

Let us now witness an effective judicial system.

I have long given up on the media in this country having any real spine or moral authority.

Posted by: shaken at June 3, 2006 06:23 PM

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Not "we". "W", as in GWB. But, that's a minor point. In a sense, it would be "we", as western civilization.

I think what's needed is something way over the top. Proportional responses achieve nothing.

The people who hate western civilization will not be swayed. Not in 100 generations. Forget about making them love us, or transforming those societies into anything resembling functioning democracies. It won't happen.

Make them fear us, instead. Make the consequences of undertaking any terrorist attack so terrible that nobody will dare.

Posted by: ian in cowtown at June 3, 2006 06:44 PM

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The citizens of the world can no longer afford the luxury of catering to the ’sensibilities’ of religious folk - including Muslims.

There is only one way to attenuate the threat posed by militant Islam and that is to introduce doubt into the hearts and minds of ordinary Muslim believers.

Instead of side-stepping in fear of giving ‘offense’, strike at the very heart and soul of the problem.

And what is that? Well...dare I speak the name...yes...the Qur’an!

This fountainhead of fervour and discord, supposedly an exact word-for-word copy of tablets existing eternally in heaven:

makes demonstrably false claims

is based on identifiable ‘fables’

is replete with historical errors and anachronisms

is not worthy of faith, let alone lives.

To argue endlessly about what is meant by this word, or that word, or this idea, or that idea, is worse than pointless when the whole book can be, indeed has been, swept away by an even mildly rigorous scholarly examination.

Question the provenance and content of the Qur’an, publish fearlessly, and confidence in the Qur’an as the word of Allah will be severely shaken, just where it should be - in the hearts and minds of ordinary Muslims.

Posted by: Vynette Holliday at June 3, 2006 09:27 PM

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Vieux loup has a point, actually. The Afghanistan adventure can't all be blamed on Harper. When I venture into the wilds of the starboard side of the blogosphere, all I seem to encounter is binaries, the worst and most seductive being "Liberal/Conservative."

I'm neither. Just let me observe that our increasingly meddlesome role in complex world situations like the ME and Afghanistan is bound to have consequences. Because the people in those countries think in binaries as well.

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at June 4, 2006 08:52 AM

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